Dr. Susan vs. Dr. Laura: Why can’t we go back to the good old days? AKA: Feminism causes date rape.

SusanLife56 Comments

[Trigger warning for discussion of rape.]

Do not click to open this unless you are prepared to get really, really angry. It’s bad, guys.

The following was taken from Dr. Laura’s website. Have questions you want somebody that isn’t Dr. Laura to answer? Ask me!

The question: “Should I have a conversation with my 29-year-old daughter regarding her relationship with a 50-year-old man? I’ve actually expected her to bring it up. Do you have pros and cons to help me give her some fatherly advice regarding the challenges if she asks for it?”

Dr. Laura

Courtesy of Dr. Laura's website.

Dr. Laura’s advice: No, I think you should go talk to the 50-year-old guy. I know she’s an adult, I got that, but I think you need to man-to-man with the 50-year-old guy and say, “My daughter didn’t ask me to be here; I didn’t tell her I was coming here. I’m here, man-to-man. Go get a woman your own age. Don’t be messing around with my daughter. She needs to be with someone her own age so they can grow together, and grow old together and have challenges together. You just want a cute, hard body who adores you because, quite frankly, at 20-something, she doesn’t know better. So, I’m counting on you, man-to-man to do the right thing and to leave my daughter alone.”

In the old days, that’s how this situation would have been handled. I like the old days. There are so many things about the old days that really worked. There was no date rape in the old days because girls didn’t go out with some guy, get drunk, get naked and go to his place… (I’m sorry) get drunk, go to his place, get naked and then go, “Oops!”

In the old days with young people, the guy had to talk to the father, everybody knew who everybody was, they went to places that were public, girls didn’t get drunk because that was unseemly behavior and you would get in trouble. I mean think about it, the old days had morals, values, principles and ethics and basically those were prophylactic. They kept you from getting in trouble.

And part of the old days was dad would go take care of this. So, don’t punch him out, just sit down with him and say, “Be a man. A real man does not do this to a young woman.”

What I have to say:

Deep breath. I have tried to write an answer to this three times already, and every time, I’ve had to rip it up and walk away. Anger does not do justice to the way I feel. When I start to think about what Laura has said, I begin sputtering with fury and am unable to get my thoughts out in a coherent way. But I will try again.

What Dr. Laura is saying here is disgusting and dangerous. I’m not talking about her “advice” – I’ll get to that later. I’m talking about her dismissal of and co-conspiracy to rape. I really do mean that. Dr. Laura is conspiring with rapists.

Date rape is not the result of slutty women throwing their naked bodies at men and then saying “oops.” It is not a result of women being unashamed of drinking or relaxing in public places. It is not a fucking product of women gaining more equality.

Date rape is an act of deplorable violence. It is a gross violation of a human being, and it is the result of a monster behaving like a monster. Against somebody who trusted them enough to go on a date. Date rape is a monstrous act against a friend.

Date rape is not a sign of the times. When people challenge sexism and stereotypes, that does not lead to date rape. Date rape is a monstrous act against a friend. If there is more date rape reported now, it is not because women have become stupid sluts. It is because victims of a monstrous act have finally been given permission to admit that they were victims – have finally been absolved of blame for the monstrous act of violence that was done to them against their will.

And you, Dr. Laura, are a guilty party to the assault. Your radio show is heard by several million people. Millions of men have now heard, from a voice of authority, that drunk, incapacitated women are to blame for whatever happens.

A woman about to be raped has no control over the situation. A man about to rape gets to choose: do I perform this monstrous act of violence on a friend? Or not?

And you, Dr. Laura: your words are echoing in their heads, telling them to go ahead, nobody will blame them if they do. Your words are egging on potential rapists, contributing to the violence against women. Date rape is not made more prevalent when women have the nerve to act like human beings. Date rape becomes more prevalent when people like you tell rapists to rape, and tell victims that they deserve to have had somebody attack them.

What Rush Limbaugh said last week about Sandra Fluke was terrible. But this – this is far worse. You are encouraging men to rape, and placing blame on the women who have been assaulted. You are encouraging men to rape.

As to your advice? When you were 29, you were married and on the verge of divorce, had started an extra-marital affair with a radio producer who launched your career, had posed for naked photographs for him which he later put out on the Internet, and had begun another extra-marital affair with a man 12 years your senior which led to your current marriage. Perhaps it is this experience that has caused you to imagine that 29-year-olds are little girls who need to be taken care of, but they are not. Grown women get to make their own decisions, just like you did, and your bullshit kowtowing to anybody with a penis while declaring all women to be incompetent sluts is just that: bullshit.

Dr. Laura. You are a smart woman. Because of the fights of feminists before you, you got to have a career. You got to get out of an unhappy marriage, and you got to live a life in which your opinions were respected and your life has value. You get to own property, and drive, and vote. Knock this bullshit off. You’ve made your money. Walk away, and regain some sort of shred of dignity.

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Susan

I am old and wise.Perhaps more old than wise, but once you're old, you don't give a shit about details anymore.
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SusanDr. Susan vs. Dr. Laura: Why can’t we go back to the good old days? AKA: Feminism causes date rape.

56 Comments on “Dr. Susan vs. Dr. Laura: Why can’t we go back to the good old days? AKA: Feminism causes date rape.”

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  1. Avatar of bonnybear
    bonnybear

    I love how women like her always blame feminism and yet they forget that had it not been feminism, they wouldn’t have a career. The Liz Trottas, Sarah Palins, Michelle Bachmans, Dr. Lauras of the world. Feminism made everything bad, let’s all stone the “feminazis.” Yeah, you wouldn’t be a career woman if women, a long long time ago hadn’t stood up and demanded an end to all the bullshit and discrimination. Shame on you Dr. Laura.

  2. Avatar of anderscm
    anderscm

    Wow…just wow. That someone could perceive the past in such an inaccurate manner blows me away. And in addition, her implications that women are AT FAULT for rape? I cannot conceive. Additionally, rape is NOT a product of the modern day as she implies, rape could happen even in the idealized patriarchal system she describes so optimistically, it was simply even more coercive and unpleasant. This has me in some serious rage right now, I need some way to vent!

     

    1. Avatar of Jesse
      Jesse

      I suggest joining an anti-Dr Laura crusade!

      Many years ago some people concerned about Dr. Laura’s inflammatory remarks toward our LGBT kin successfully kept Dr. Laura off TV.  I think it’s time to get her off radio, too.

       

  3. Avatar of bibliotecha
    bibliotecha

    I can’t even comprehend how she thinks this is true. I just don’t understand. And people believing her? No. I don’t want to believe people are that ignorant to think a 29-year-old needs to be treated like a child.

    Susan, you’re a much better adviser. Thanks for finally making it through on the 4th try and writing this response.

    1. Avatar of Susan
      Susan

      Or sometimes I think (a lot of the time I think) that she has just figured out that she can say outlandish things and that makes her money.  But there’s a difference between outlandish things (men love to feel like they are providing!  Women should stay home with kids NO MATTER WHAT!) and what I consider to be criminally dangerous things.  Like telling men that drunk women are asking to be raped.  And if she knows better, and is just choosing to say stupid shit for money, and still says the really dangerous stuff – ugh.  It’s really upsetting.

      1. Avatar of Nichole Wilson
        Nichole Wilson

        Maybe she’s just trying to see how far she can go before she gets fired? Because seriously. None one scrap of that “advice” is acceptable, let alone helpful.

  4. Avatar of Jesse
    Jesse

    May God/Allah/the Universe/Earth/Science strike her down and turn her into worm meat.

    Until then, this is what activism is about.  @drlauraprogram must go down, #feminism is awesome

  5. Avatar of Cesy
    Cesy

    At the moment, my favourite thing to say about people like this is “throw them in a volcano”. She’s just jumped to the start of the line, which is pretty impressive because previously the start of the line was populated by people who advocated killing disabled children at birth.

    1. Avatar of Susan
      Susan

      I cannot believe a) that she has a show, but more importantly, b) that people like and believe what she says.

      1. Avatar of Cesy
        Cesy

        The world is a scary place Susan. It’s why I choose to live in my little bubble of avoiding as much mainstream media as possible. I get all my information through comedy podcasts and TV shows. They are surprisingly informative.

  6. Avatar of [E]SaraB
    [E]SaraB

    I have decided that, since in the Limbaugh/Fluke fallout one of the most common responses is “He’s always been an ass, why are you complaining now?” I want to proactively start campaigning against Dr. Laura. That way, when she finally crosses ‘the line’ I can be all “I told you so.”

      1. Avatar of Olivia Waite
        Olivia Waite

        I think it’s the comfort of having a story you can easily replicate to prove self-worth and identity.

        You start by separating people into categories: men, women, parents, children, fathers, daughters, good, bad. Anyone with the label “good man” must ask a father’s permission to marry/date/court someone in the category “daughter.” By asking a father’s permission, then, a man demonstrates he deserves the label “good.”

        Because, you know, treating a woman like a human being with motives and wants and drives and thoughts is TOO DAMN COMPLICATED.

  7. Avatar of Opifex
    Opifex

    Ok. I don’t get She Hulk mad very often. I actively try to be peaceful and friendly. BUT WHAT THE FUCK? WHAT THE FUCKITY FUCK? Susan, how did it only take you four tries to respond to this? I would have needed eighty or so.

  8. Avatar of Alex
    Alex

    What is this I can’t even-

    Can we fucking stop with this absolutely deaf, wrong-headed idea that the past was a mythical land of greatness? I get it, Dr. Laura, you’ve worn a flapper dress a couple of times and you really love Marilyn’s hair in that film with the President. I love waistcoats, fine tablewear and jazz as well. I also like women voting, anti-discrimination law and sex with men outside the confines of mafia-controlled dive bars. But you know, let’s go back to the time when marital rape wasn’t illegal, it was fun to hang young black men, and we had no surefire cure for syphillis. I can’t wait to leave school at 15 (unless I’m rich and therefore better), have no recourse against abusive employers and go on to essentially own my wife and children (whenever I’m not being beaten into a bloody pulp because I happen to love men).

    But, you know, after I’ve brushed off my angry welts and you’ve made yourself pretty after I’ve smacked you about a bit over our loveless marraige, we’ll all go to the fucking soda parlour with Danny and the gang and it’ll all be ONE LONG FUCKING SOCKHOP.

    SOUNDS FUCKING GRAND.

     

    PS: Oh hey if you want, you can totally be a secretary. Not while you’re married to me though, no bitch of mine is going to typewrite outside the home!

    1. Avatar of Susan
      Susan

      I don’t know that I’ve ever been as mad as I was when reading this.  But there’s always next week.

    2. Avatar of Olivia Waite
      Olivia Waite

      I’m pretty sure Dr. Laura had some magical biotech procedure that erased all her own memories of “the old days” and replaced them with episodes of Leave it to Beaver and Father Knows Best.

  9. Avatar of [E]SaraB
    [E]SaraB

    I don’t know what “old days” she is talking about. The only “old days” I know about are the ones where young women were routinely married off to older men, at their parents’ urging, because they had to get hitched before they turned into 20-year-old old maids, though men were expected to wait until they were financially secure and mature enough to take a young bride firmly in hand. Or the “old days” where upper class young women were “safe” from date rape because all the menfolk took out their sexual frustrations on lower class girls, who either consented or didn’t – nobody really cared either way.

    1. Avatar of bonnybear
      bonnybear

      Or the young men who took out their sexual frustrations on women of color. Let’s not forget that one. The good old days were only good for heterosexual, rich white men.

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